Mormonism: All or Nothing

Reprinted from PostMormon.com

KA wrote:

According to Mormonism, their prophet is as infallible as Vatican II claims the Pope to be - that means, when declaring doctrine, managing the affairs of the church, and knowing the way of salvation, HE CANNOT MAKE A MISTAKE! God will not allow it! Therefore, a Mormon can do nothing but accept declared doctrine and the way the Prophet runs the church unquestioningly and obey accordingly.

Either Gordon B. Hinckley and every previous prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are one hundred per cent correct concerning church affairs and doctrine, or they are false prophets. There is no other option. And unless the current prophet declares a past prophet's doctrine incorrect, or gets "new" revelation because God changed his mind yet again, then all he said STILL STANDS and that cannot be ignored.
--KA

pnut wrote:

LDS prophet Wilford Woodruff, the fourth president of the LDS church, who signed the 1890 manifesto to agree to cease practicing polygamy stated that:

"If we were to do away with polygamy, then we must do away with prophets and Apostles, with revelation and the gifts and graces of the gospel and finally give up our religion altogether."
Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 166

Apostle Orson Pratt said:
"If plurality of marriage is not true, then marriage for eternity is not true and your faith is all in vain, and all the sealing ordinances and powers pertaining to marriages for eternity are vain, worthless, good for nothing; for sure as one is true to other also must be true."
Journal of Discourses, vol. 17, p.224

Joseph Fielding Smith said:
"Plural marriage is one of the most important doctrines ever revealed to man in any age of the world. Without it we could never be exalted to associate with and become gods...."
Journal of Discourses, vol. 21, p. 10

Apostle Orson Pratt further stated:
"The has said that those who reject this principle "polygamy" reject their salvation, they shall be damned."
Journal of Discourses, vol. 17, p. 224

Joseph Fielding Smith clarifies:
"Civil marriage makes servants in eternity. Celestial marriage makes gods in eternity." Celestial marriage was defined only as polygamous at the time JFS was making this statement.

Brigham Young boasted:
"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom as I know the road to my office. I have never preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men that they may not call scripture."
Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95

fast forward to today.... Hinckley distancing himself from the entire history and doctrine of celestial marriage. He claimed that only a very small percentage of early LDS members practiced plural marriage. He denounced it as not a doctrinal practice.

Gordon B. Hinckley: I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal. It is not legal. And this church takes the position that we will abide by the law. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lkl_00.shtml
here is the link to the entire transcript of the interview and GBH goes into greater detail of the controversial history and practice of polygamy in the LDS church.

The modern LDS church is making their best effort in distancing themselves and downplaying the god-revealed practice of polygamy, but the history and teachings will always remain the truth is that celestial marriage was revealed to the founder Joseph Smith as plural, without a doubt and the church cannot completely hide such a revelation entirely from free thinking people.
--pnut

Fairlight wrote:

Russell Nelson said that God's love is conditional. http://www.lds.org/churchmagazines/2003/Feb2003Ensign.pdf ... article on p 20.

He goes on to say that only Anti-Christs believe that God's love is unconditional (bottom of p.23).

His article is full of cunning twists and turns as he vainly attempts to prove his false teachings.

Who is the Anti-Christ? Who is mixing truth with lies?

We all agree that kids need to "earn" rewards like play-time by doing their chores first.

We also agree it is ludicrous to think for a moment that any child should be forced to earn their parent's love.

Yet that is exactly what Mr Nelson claims is God's truth.

Who is the Anti-Christ, Mr Nelson?

Who is the Anti-Christ?
--fairlight


****My Thoughts****

Can the church be "true" with some parts "not true"? Can it still be considered a "restoration of all things" if they are cut out little by little due to social pressures, (blacks gained the priesthood) man-made laws (polygamy specifically outlawed) or to boost attendance in the temples (blood oaths of vengeance, gestures of disembowelment, and touching the bare parts of the body with oil have been cut out of the temple ceremonies since the initial introduction of temple rites)?

I would suggest that the church as it stands right now will be completely unrecognizable 50 years from now. The prophet will become merely a CEO, and the temples will be used for special events, where everyone can enter and witness a wedding.

All the things that make it so sacred and unique are slowly ebbing and chipping away as time progresses. Even Joseph Smith wouldn't recognize the church as it exists today, since it has gone through major overhauls in the last 150 years. In his own words, from the Aug 2001 Ensign, p. 22:

"Now the purpose in Himself in the winding up scene of the last dispensation is that all things pertaining to that dispensation should be conducted precisely in accordance with the preceding dispensations.... He set the temple ordinances to be the same forever and ever and set Adam to watch over them,to reveal them from heaven to man, or to send angels to reveal them." - Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol.4, p. 208


And a further warning from David O. McKay:

"...God is unchangeable, the same yesterday, today and forever... The great mistake made down through the ages by teachers of Christianity, is that they have supposed they could place their own private interpretation upon scriptures, allow their own personal convenience to become a controlling factor, and change the basis of Christian law and practice to suit themselves. This is apostasy."
- Prophet's Message, Church News, June 5, 1965



So, here's the big questions you should ask yourself:

Has the church evolved over time?

Is every ordinance exactly the same as when it was first introduced?

Are the words of every prophet still regarded as revelation, and considered the will of God?

Is this church the same as Joseph's original church? Is it even the same as Brigham Young's vision?

Can you pick and choose what portions you are comfortable with, like the youth activities and homemaking meetings, and discard things that are uncomfortable, like polygamy and naked touching in the temple?

Can you call yourself Mormon if you don't believe in these things?