LDS church expresses ‘regret’, falls short of apology for MMM

Link to Deseret News article here


***My Thoughts***

I was just thinking how fortunate (and smart) the church is for choosing to only study church history every four years, giving ample time to fine-tune it and refine it so as to keep the membership steady. I wonder how many people are baptized during years of study with the Old and New Testament as opposed to years of study with the Book of Mormon or the Doctrine and Covenants and Church History. Each topic takes a year of course study, thereby giving the church plenty of time to ingrain the new converts into the lifestyle, so much so that by the time the year of church history rolls around, they have already become used to taking cues from their peers. That’s why newbies often spend the first 6 months to a year in Gospel Essentials classes taught by the missionaries instead of the Gospel Doctrine classes where all the hard-core faithful attend.

During my early adult years, I rarely sat in Relief Society or Gospel Doctrine class, because I was constantly assigned to teach in Primary, constantly churning the milk of the message and never getting to the meat. Even through Temple Preparation class, I wasn’t made aware of all of the things that would happen that day, as if they meant to keep me off guard and surprise me so quickly I wouldn’t have time to process all of the information. I also deduced that the only people who ever received the calling to teach Gospel Doctrine were the staunch believers, who wouldn’t miss Sacrament meeting if their own mother was dying in the hospital. These are the same people who actually took pride in the fact that they never strayed from the manuals and suggested articles from the Ensign. They would keep the topic on focus and reprimand anyone who asked an un-formulated question by referring them to the Bishop as a ‘troublemaker’ (which happened to me a couple of times). That person would almost always end up wrangling 3 year-olds in the nursery or trying to each squirmy 8-11 year olds songs to sing in honor of the prophets of the church.

The way I see it, (and that’s why the title is My Thoughts Exactly) the church is slowly evolving into a Christian mainstream. No longer do they want a separatist environment that Brigham Young envisioned for them. No longer do they want to be called a “peculiar people”. All they want is for all the controversy to go away, stop pointing out their failures, their mistakes, and calling on them to do away with their beliefs. People like me who have left the church are mostly holding a bit of a grudge against the church because they have claimed to hold the fullness of the gospel that Jesus Christ bestowed upon his chosen followers. This information was lost through a great apostasy, and Joseph Smith restored it through his miraculous powers of translation and visions. This is the fairytale that must be done away with in order for the church to be accepted by “Christianity”. This little piece of ‘priesthood authority’ is what keeps Mormons from being treated as just another denomination of Christianity.


I just had to share here some quotes from RFM, which bring the question of Brigham Young’s prophetic power and influence into new light:


From RfM

Author: NoToJoe

If BY is innocent in MMM and all blame lies at the feet of local leaders then why were the local leaders not punished?

John Lee was the only man ever held accountable for MMM. Yet he was certainly not the only man responsible. He had dozens of accomplices who appear to have received a nod of approval from the Beehive House.

At the time, thanks to the doctrine of blood atonement, Brigham Young was having throats slit for adultery and apostasy. Am I to believe that BY would not punish his rogue Cedar City member after learning of the murderous behavior? Not a likely story.

So 150 year later the TSCC [the so-called church] sends a puppet to the site of a horrific slaughter to recite the standard “local leaders to blame, Bro. Young’s instructions to let them pass unmolested arrived too late”

But wait!!!!! These excuses are not logical. Why were the guilty not held to account? Maybe they weren’t actually considered to be guilty. Why did Bro. Young think it was necessary to say “don’t kill the settlers?” Maybe he know they were in grave danger.


The TSCC may declare Briggy’s innocence for the one-billionth time. But to me something doesn’t add up. SOMETHING STINKS!


Author: JW the Inquizzinator
Yep, reminds of that scene in "A Few Good Men" with Jack Nicholson as Col Nathan R. Jessep


Kaffee: Crystal. Colonel, I have just one more question before I call Airman O'Malley and Airman Rodriguez. If you gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, and your orders are always followed, then why would Santiago be in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base?
Jessup: Santiago was a substandard Marine. He was being transferred because--
Kaffee: That is not what you said, you said he was being transferred because he was in grave danger.
Jessup: That’s correct.
Kaffee: You said he was in danger, I said "grave danger?" You said "is there another kind?"--
Jessup: I recall what I said--
Kaffee: I can have the court reporter read back to you--
Jessup: I know what I said. I don't have to have it read back to me like I'm--
Kaffee: Then why the two orders? Colonel?
Jessup: Sometimes men take matters into their own hands.
Kaffee: No, Sir. You made it clear a moment ago that your men never take matters in to their own hands. Your men follow orders or people die. So Santiago shouldn't have been in any danger at all, should he have, Colonel?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/A_Few_Good_Men

Oh if we could only get BY on the stand.....just substitute "Massacre" for "Code Red"


Kaffee: If Lt. Kendrick gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, then why did he have to be transferred? Colonel? Lt. Kendrick ordered the Code Red, didn't he, because that's what you told Lt. Kendrick to do!
Ross: Object!
Kaffee: And when it went bad, you cut these guys loose!--
Judge: Lt. Kaffee!
Kaffee: You got Markinson to sign a phony transfer order! You doctored the log books!
Ross: Dammit, Kaffee!
Kaffee: You coerced the doctor!
Judge: Consider yourself in contempt!
Kaffee: Colonel Jessup, did you order the code red?!
Judge: You don't have to answer that question!
Jessep: I'll answer the question. You want answers?
Kaffee: I think I'm entitled.
Jessep: You want answers?!
Kaffee: I want the truth!
Jessep: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You?! You, Lieutenant Weinberg?! I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said, "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!
Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?
Jessep: I did the job I was sent to do--
Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?!
Jessep: YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I DID!!!


Author: SL Cabbie

Yep, And John D. Lee Mentions in His "Confessions" that BY sent some of his minions to confiscate his diaries (he kept them meticulously even though his spelling was atrocious), including one Lee claimed contained written orders to Dame and Haight that were carried by George A. Smith . . .

But church apologists have insisted for over a hundred years that Lee's jailhouse confessions were fabricated by his attorney, William W. Bishop, in order to recoup Lee's legal fees . . .

Anyone who doubts this one need only read the review by Carin Reddig in the following link from an Amazon.com offering of the book . . .

QUOTE:“It is important to remember when reading this version of John D. Lee's writings that his words were manipulated by the editor to convey an anti-Mormon message”

Author: Cheryl
If BY is innocent in MMM and all blame lies at the feet of local leaders then maybe present day Mormons should question local leaders a whole lot more, not necessarily do what they say or believe their words.

Author: Randy J.
Not only were the MM murderers not punished by church leaders, church leaders also proactively protected them from arrest and prosecution. From the confession of John D. Lee:

“There is another falsehood generally believed in Utah, especially among the Mormons. It is this. It has generally been reported that Brigham Young was anxious to help Judge Cradlebaugh arrest all the guilty parties. There is not one word of truth in the whole statement. Brigham Young knew the name of every man that was in any way implicated in the Mountain Meadows Massacre. He knew just as much about it as I did, except that he did not see it, as I had seen it.”

“If Brigham Young had wanted one man, or fifty men, or five hundred men arrested, all he would have had to do would have been to say so, and they would have been arrested instantly. There was no escape for them if he ordered their arrest. Every man who knows anything of affairs in Utah at that time knows this is so.”

“It is true that Brigham made a great parade at the time, and talked a great deal about bringing the guilty parties to Justice, but he did not mean a word of it--not a word. He did go South with Cradlebaugh, but he took good care that Cradlebaugh caught no person that had been in the massacre.”

“I know that I had plenty of notice of their coming, and so did all the brethren. It was one of Brigham Young's cunning dodges to blind the government.”


Young continued to protect Lee for almost two decades, until it became expedient to sacrifice him as a scapegoat so that the government would cease further investigation and prosecutions. Read details of Young's betrayal of Lee at [here]



Author: Baura
The charge has been made that MMM was the result of a few "rogue Mormons" who went off the deep end. The Church as a whole shouldn't have any blame at all.

The phrase "rogue Mormons" makes it sound like Warren Jeffs and a few of his cronies were responsible: people who had broken with the institutional church and said "hell with them, I'm doing it my own way."

This is a serious misreading of history. Even if we buy the Church's explanation it still smells to high heaven.

The massacre was organized by the local Church leaders who were in full fellowship. At the height of the tension they didn't know what to do. They sent a rider to get instructions from Brigham Young on what to do. They were not a group of "rogue Mormons" they were the official leadership trying their best to do what they thought Brigham Young wanted them to do. When the rider didn't return in time they had to make their best guess of what Brigham Young wanted and they murdered 120 men, women, and children.

Now here's an interesting question. How in the Holy Heck did the Church Leadership in the area get the idea that what Brigham Young would have wanted them to do is commit mass murder?? It would have been one thing for a few angry Mormons to show up and kill the Fancher party. That would be bad enough, but when the Stake Presidency and Stake High Council try their BEST to do what they think the Prophet Seer and Revelator would have them do they end up murdering 120 people.

When the constituted Church leaders try their best to do what they think is "right" (the Mormon version of "right) and it turns out their best guess of "right" is to murder over 100 men, women and children what does that say for their method of discerning right from wrong? What does that say about Mormon leaders' access to inspiration--to the "still small voice" that these Holy-Ghost-containing, power-of-discernment gifted leaders best understanding of "right" is mass murder?

Even if we buy the "Brigham had nothing to do with it" mantra that the apologists repeat over and over the lesson from MMM is very, VERY negative for the claims of the Church.


***My Thoughts***

I am just trying to figure out what Brigham Young ever did as a prophet that would convince people he was so deserving of the respect and admiration he received, even more so now that he has been dead over 100 years. What demonstrable proof is there that he was a prophet of God? The whole of the Journal of Discourses, a set of 26 volumes of speeches made by Brigham Young and his apostles and successors has never been set aside as scripture by the church, yet the people living in that time abided by it as if it were. Who decided that it wasn’t going to be called scripture, when Brigham Young himself declared that he had never given a discourse that the Saints could not call scripture? And doesn’t negating that claim negate the authority of Brigham Young as a prophet?

I have never been able to understand the reverence the Mormons have for whoever happens to be prophet at the time. On the one hand, the church wants the outside world to see them as just people praying for guidance and inspiration like everyone else. On the other hand, the church teaches their faithful followers to ‘follow the prophet, don’t go astray, he knows the way’. It’s a fake front to deceive the Christian movement into believing that Mormonism is just ‘enhanced Christianity’. Revering a prophet as if he has special powers of ‘visions’ and can lead millions of people with just a stroke of his pen in a proclamation, or through a speech given at General Conference is like believing that Jimmy Swaggart or Jim Bakker were also prophets of God. He’s just a guy getting paid to do a job. He ascended to the highest position by virtue of his age and time of service, nothing else. And I think a prophet should at least be able to do a decent magic trick…