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One day I ask my husband if he were Truman in the Truman show if he would want to know? That led to a long discussion of what things would be like. Then I said. " Well I have run into a similar problem" I told him I had come across 10 things that really bothered me about the church and that I hadn't investigated them thoroughly yet and I just felt like Truman finding all of this out. Well that made him curious but I just told him a small summary of what I had found. After an hour he looked like I had punched him in the gut. I reassured him that I wasn't going forward in my search for the truth unless he could handle it. I let him know that our family was more important to me.
Well a few weeks went by and he kept saying he didn't want to deal with it. I had dropped the subject and let things go. I was reading on my own and just reviewing things on the web. I came up with a list of topics and books we could read together. Well my husband started to get curious and look at a lot of the same things. Everytime he said " Do you know about such and such" I would just reply "not much explain it to me" well after a while my husband explained himself right out of the church without me teaching him a thing.
I know it was different because men can be more logical than women who love all the artsy crafty perfection the church offers. We have made the transition out of the church smoothly and are moving on with our lives. I just thought I would say that there are a few things I learned from this that might apply or might now
1. let your spouse explain it to you instead of trying to teach them about the inconsistancies in the church
2. read about how people really change and see things. I recommend a book called "changing for good."
3. let your spouse know that they are more important than the church and that you will do anything to hold the family together. That may mean negotiating with church crap.
4. realize it may take years for them to figure things out. your children may be better off just having a liberal parent show a different side of the church than no parent at all getting brainwashed by lds goons.
5. I think letting the wives know how upset you are over the polygomy stuff is the most important. Most women like the idea that their husband really cares about them being equal in the CK
6. with men I think the archeology and facts work best. My husband found that very annoying.
I also want to add for you guy folks out there. Women really have been taught that their whole salvation rests on external people. She can't even get out of the grave without you calling her name. If she sins you can go on and marry someone else...she is trapped. I have a friend who is divorced from an abusive priesthood holder....she is the sweetest lady but she is massively depressed because now she can't get into heaven..no matter how worthy she tries to be....in the double bind on this sight I read how women are taught that priesthood holders are loving and in charge and that they should bow down and follow them. But then they are also taught that they are fallable and make mistakes and that they have to follow them even when they aren't so righteous. This creates a huge burden for women. I suggest reading that book or atleast parts of it to get a better idea how messed up the church tangles women's thinking. It is very complicated and it needs to be understood in my opinion if you want to save your family. Women only get self esteem in the church from their children being righteous and their husband getting big callings and being righteous. It really is terrible that is why anti-depressants are so high in UT because they have such a hard time having any control over their own salvation since they work their guts out to just get crapped on by the church.
... I really feel for those that are stuck with trying to hold on to their family and trying to keep their sanity and undo the terrible mess that the church has made out of their lives. Especially after I started looking at it from the outside. it is almost like once you are outside the mind screw you no longer can try to be inside it at the same time. For the husband trying to get their wives out I think it is even more complicated because of the abusive mind control the church has over women. I enclosed a quoate that helped my husband see how tied in knots I have been and I hope maybe it might help some husband understand the total mess they are trying to untangle their wives from. I think some people try to teach people the church is not true just like the missionary discussions. It isn't about "losing your testimony" it is about FINDING REALITY.... I am particularly at odds about what to suggest to a spouse who's whole relationship revolves around the church. we have a friend who told me the other day " If we don't talk about the church or our kids we wouldn't have anything to talk about" This just dumbstruck me. I mean I don't see how this marriage can be saved outside the church if there isn't a deeper friendship and companionship and sharing going on underneath. I mean these are the wives that would love to be sealed to JS if they had the chance they are so messed up in the head. Untieing that knot is just going to be tough because it is so knarled up with crap.
Ironically most women are not happy in the church. I taught many a lessons in RS where the sisters looked like they were just dead tired and trying to find something positive. That is why anti-depressants use is so high among the women. They all have battered wife syndrome. Only the church has made them like that. If you husbands do chose to read the double bind book on this site I hope that you might be able to see how the church ties all of us in knots. my husband was never sexist and encouraged me through a very demanding career but I was like that scarlet letter movie carving the A into my own chest bleeding to death.
Anyways this quote really explains what I am trying to say
Quote from the Double Bind here on the site
I, also, had been led to think the enemy was "out there," and to ignore anything that wasn't in Mormonism; in that respect, I was ignorant. Later, I would be blamed by my husband, for having been "so naive." Members of the church, and women especially, are programmed with "milk" images and labels; in fact, we have all been commanded to ... ("Yes,") ... become as little children, have faith, and trust in our husbands, and our leaders (Stage 2, 3), ("But,") ... then, later, we are accused of being "naive," as if to say "Grow up, you're not a child," or, "You should have known that we are only human" (Stage 6). The two stages create a double-bind, used over and over again, by the "Shepherd" who says, "Trust me!" ... "Don't question authority," and the "Wolf," who says, "Be responsible; you 'chose' to be ignorant."
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A husband's turn:It wasn't precisely planned, but these are the steps that happened to us, that helped my once TBM wife leave after I did:
1) Told her I was 'uncomfortable' about the church and reminded her of several past events: her extended family missing our temple marriage - was that fair?, the 2,3 and sometime 4 callings we were asked to do - burnout, and the treatment of women - some history books just left around the house. I found out that the temple had really bothered her and I worked on that.
2) Saw a strong member also leave before us. Began to bring up questions of why such a person left, when we knew the cause was not any 'sin', but disbelief
3) We moved. (I know extreme, but a marriage is worth that!) Got away from our both TBM families by a few hours. Yet, we ended up in a twisted insular wierd little ward where a number of odd teachings were manifest. (I could not have asked for a better - or, I should say, worst - little ward to move to.) So far to the extreme from our more liberal beliefs was this ward that it actually helped set the stage for her disbelief.
4) Finally, I challanged her to seek out the truth. I emphasised that without due dilligence and a search, she will remain uncertain and emotionally lost. I turned on the computer and encouraged her to read up on the church on-line
I think that other than sleeping and eating, she was on-line for about 5 straight days. I took care of everything around the house to free up her time.
BINGO! EXMO!
I sort of used my once and former missionary tactics, in reverse and a little slower, to set up the situation. I knew I could not force the issue, but there was nothing stopping me from planting a few intellectual land mines along the way . . .
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Another husband chimes in:
One thing that definitely wouldn't and didn't work with my wife was my bringing up any so called "anti" literature or points, or being hostile, resentful or negative towards the church. It rocked her world somewhat when I told her I could never go back to church because I could no longer believe in it. But I did tell her that I was telling her because I loved her and that it was important that we were always honest with each other and that I couldn't just go thru the motions as that would be dishonest.
I always made our marriage top priority. I never pushed an anti mormon agenda in her face, which would just make her defensive and make her dig in her heels deeper in mormonism. Slowly (over about two or three years) she changed a lot on her own. She considers herself mormon, yet she never goes to church, (in fact she says she doesn't miss it one bit) doesn't wear her garments, has a cup of coffee when I make some, has the occasional drink if I'm having one, doesn't regret raising our two kids out of the church.
I think she saw that I was happy, more relaxed and that the world isn't going to crash down when you leave the church. I think that if I had tried to force her hand more, she never would have allowed herself to come to those conclusions on her own. I will say this though, she doesn't have a family who ever said anything negative about her decisions and lifestyle choices. Her mother, although a very dedicated LDS member, has said she's seen enough so called good church families go down in flames with problems, that she'd much rather see her daughters live happy fulfilled lives out of the church than stiffled, unhappy ones in the church. I wish you the best of luck in your situation.
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How my husband approached me
Over a year ago my husband started to do research just out of curiosity of church history. He kept quiet for months and then started to make comments, especially in sacrament meetings. For example, a child gets up to bear his testimony saying the usual, "I know this church is true", and my DH leans over and whispers "Yeah and he also knows that Santa Claus is true too!" The comments in church really bugged me because I had no idea where they were coming from. I don't recommend that approach.
Over time he would read me excerpts from books such as the Journal of Discourses, or make comments. Mostly I didn't want to hear it and I would tell him so. But I guess he couldn't help himself because we talk about everything with each other. I remember asking him one day if he still believed in the BOM and JS. I was shocked when he just smiled at me.
Finally he asked if I would just read Grant Palmer's book and then he would leave me alone. I took him up on the offer because I felt I could trust Palmer. After all, he was still a church member and he looked the part of the elder Mormon man that I was taught to put on a pedestal. So I read and we talked about what I read.
It is now 8 months later and I have read Quinn, B H Roberts, Mormon Enigma, In Sacred Loneliness, Mormon America, One Nation Under Gods, plus Dialog and Sunstone. I am currently reading Fawn Brodie's book.
For me, the approach my husband took was just non-threatening enough to make me look. I am still having a hard time. I miss certain things and feel unsure about the future. It is especially hard because we live in the heart of Mormonland. My neighbors, people I work with, my family members are all Mormon. My social structure consists of mostly Mormons and their constant talk about their religion. Things I used to love to talk about now make me angry. I spend a lot of time biting my tongue and changing the subject.
Although it is a tough journey to take, I am glad we are taking it together.
______________________________________*****MY Thoughts******
If you are reading my posts here, and keep coming back to read them, why not see what other former Mormons like me have revealed about their own experiences leaving Mormonism. It isn't as easy as saying "I Quit!" It is a real, long, difficult process for most people who want nothing more than to prove that the church IS true, only to find out that it couldn't possibly be. The hurt and pain caused by that discovery has caused more heartache and depression than most staunch true believers would ever realize. Some have convinced themselves that those that leave simply wish to lead their own lives without God's intervention, and plunge into the outer darkness willingly. Well that simply is not the case. Most people who leave do so after fighting like hell to stay in, despite learning some uncomfortable truths that they just cannot reconcile with the teachings of their leaders and the guidelines of their study manuals. When they dare to ask questions, often they are met by calls to repentance, and admonitions to pray more, study more, be more teachable and humble. This is NOT going to solve the underlying problem, it only makes the individual bear the responsibility for the confusion and the frustration that comes from having to compartmentalize the brain and set aside those things that cause doubt in order to maintain their testimony and gain acceptance of their family and peer members. This can only last for so long, as each person's level of integrity is repeatedly gnawed away at by the lingering questions and the constant struggle to find answers to those thoughts so real peace and comfort can be achieved. Everyone says "listen to the still small voice". Well, what if that voice is trying to lead you towards the truth, and you are creating walls around it to keep it from destroying your faith? What good does it do to have a conscience, and a sense of logic and reason if you can't use it to find your answers? Why must you always have the discerning spirit of the Mormon religious belief in order to process information?
I think it's time to start trusting yourself and using the brains God gave you....
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