Wednesday, September 05, 2007

Mountain Meadows Massacre: Why I'm Mad as Hell

All over the web, discussions keep mounting over the Mountain Meadows Massacre. You would have thought it happened two weeks ago. And in reality, it feels just like that to many Mormons who are just learning about it for the FIRST TIME EVER in this latest issue of the Ensign Magazine. I have been following this story for months, ever since I found out that September Dawn was going to be distributed across the country. Evidently, the church thought it must be time to talk about it, now, 150 years later.

I remember growing up as a kid in Primary and Seminary hearing about such things as the Haun's Mill Massacre and the assorted violent attacks that Mormons suffered while trying to homestead in Missouri, which ultimately led to an extermination order by Governor Boggs. I remember feeling persecuted as well, just by association of being Mormon. I was very upset that Mormons were treated so bitterly and harshly, and that innocent children had sometimes fallen victim to these violent outbursts of vigilante justice. And that's exactly how I was supposed to react, I was justified in my reaction. I was even angry that it was never discussed in history class in my high school, and the subject of Mormons was hardly broached at all, even though they were pioneers in the wilderness and were responsible for populating large portions of Missouri and Illinois. I learned more from my church than I ever did in my high school, and I felt pretty special for having knowledge about such important historical events that my poor non-Mormon peers would never know. I even wrote a paper on the Haun's Mill Massacre for a history project in my high school, where I went on and on about the unfair attack against Mormons by cowardly men who hid in bushes waiting to surprise innocent women and children.

But never have I heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, either from my history class or from Seminary lessons in the Mormon Church. Why is this? Why did it take so long for this story to come out? It should have been taught right along with Haun's Mill or Carthage Jail, but instead it was ignored. Think of the lessons we could have learned all along the way about how we shouldn't take the prophet's words as revelation in every possible instance. The church could have used many opportunities to point out how fanaticism will never be God's way, and that the words of the prophets and apostles still need to come under critical analysis and prayerful consideration before being obeyed by the members of the church. Somehow, we never got these lessons growing up in church. And then one fateful day, the LDS church was faced with the accidental uncovering of the mass burial site, and state laws which had to be obeyed regarding the examination of the remains. Had it not been for this one event, the LDS faithful all over the world wouldn't have ever needed to know that this massacre took place. Oh yeah, the rock cairn was there, Hinckley did a dedication of the site back in 1999, and the descendants of the victims were part of the ceremonies. But all Hinckley would say about the event is that we don't know what happened, nobody can explain it, so let's put it all behind us now, and by the way, don't take our actions here to mean that we are admitting any fault for this massacre. What a guy. Carefully making sure that the corporation of the LDS church won't get sued by the descendants of that wagon train. Was this dedication broadcast on Deseret News Channel? Did it get a mention in the Ensign back then? Did anyone in the broader area past Utah even know that a murderous rampage against unarmed men, women and children took place? And now, while reading the Ensign article printed in this current issue, we learned that this event has "shocked and distressed those who have learned of it. " Those five words speak volumes. It means that the church did not do anything out of its way to make sure that the whole body of the church new about it, that they acknowledge their part in it, that it was a mistake made by individuals who 'misinterpreted' Brigham Young's insertion into the temple covenants to seek vengeance upon Joseph's murderers unto the fourth generation, or his sermons on blood atonement and how to help your fellow man gain exaltation by spilling his blood for him so he can atone for his sins. All we ever hear in connection with the Mountain Meadows Massacre are the excuses: we are supposed to put ourselves in the Mormons shoes and ask how we would feel if we were run out of every settlement we built, had our wives and children murdered before our eyes by our enemies, and lost all worldly goods in fires set by angry mobs.

This is what I am coming across now, when I visit the Mormon Apologetics message board. Cries of Haun's Mill! and Carthage Jail! come loud and clear. An eye for an eye, too bad for them! But I have taken the time to go all the way back to the early beginnings of Mormonism, to the roots of persecution, in order to try to solve the puzzle of which-came-first. And I sincerely believe that if all Mormons took the time to look before Haun's Mill, before the move to Missouri, before the Kirtland Era, all the way back to Joseph Smith's character and history, and then trace the events in a solid timeline all the way down to his murder in Carthage, we could finally see both sides of the coin, and realize that maybe the Mormons weren't quiet, mild-mannered settlers after all.

Where I live, there are hardly any Black families, but there are lots of Ukrainian immigrants. In the next county, there has been an influx of Mexican workers moving in to the communities. In another county nearby, there are lots of Transcendental Meditationalists and a special college for them. I think nearly everyone can work together to promote peace and prosperity to the community regardless of religious or ethnic backgrounds. But if we suddenly had about 100 newcomers move into our town, proclaiming their church to be superior to all others, claiming their living prophet has promised them all of this area will belong to their church someday, how many days or weeks would it take to set the entire town against them? A careful study of historical accounts (not just a one-time through on Ensign articles) will paint a much more complete picture of how the Mormons were viewed by others. Here lies the problem with limiting your research to only those written by the Mormon faithful---you can't really know how others see the Mormons if you only read the Mormon point of view.

Are the Mormons really in a position to relay how others view them?

Can they accurately describe what the Missouri settlers might have felt towards them, or why the folks in Kirtland, Ohio turned against Joseph Smith?

Not every account of Mormons is necessarily Anti-Mormon, just because it wasn't written by a Mormon. But time and time again, most talks center around how to maintain your testimony, how to limit influences from outside the church to sway your thinking, and how to be sure that what you read is really the inspired truth from God.

When I was a member, I was given a calling as a Primary Music instructor. I have had no training in music, can't even read music well, and don't know the first thing about playing a piano. How inspired could this calling have been? My assigned format was "Follow the Prophet" and I taught children as young as 3 years old how to always follow the advice of the living prophet of the church and to not go astray. I watched Gordon Hinckley proclaim during General Conference that tattoos, piercings, and body jewelry were unnecessary and unnatural, and I paused with baited breath as I waited for him to make his judgment on my one hole piercings in my ears. I actually reached up and held on to my right earlobe as he went on to say that the church would not take a position on one pair of piercings for women. I let out my breath, and so did TWELVE OTHER WOMEN. In that moment I knew that I had passed a judgment by a living prophet, and was grateful I hadn't gone to get a second piercing done.

How screwed up is this thinking?

Gordon Hinckley is not the kind of guy to go around making prophecies, even thought he is a prophet. So when he took the opportunity to tell us his personal opinion, Mormons throughout the country treated it as if it was a prophecy. This is why following a prophet is so crazy. If he were a prophet, we would be able to easily identify what what opinion and what what prophecy. But because he doesn't make prophecies, and doesn't predict anything at all for us in our lives, EVER, we really have no option but to rely on his opinions as God's word. And that's how it was treated. Women and girls all over the country took out their second piercings, and men removed their single earrings, or they couldn't pass sacrament, give a talk, get a temple recommend renewed, or receive a blessing from priesthood holders. It became a measuring stick for the faithful. Adherence to Gordon's 'opinion' meant the difference between reverence for God's anointed prophet, and rebellion against the prophet's counsel. And since we have all likely heard, "follow the prophet, he knows the way" in our youth, and have once or twice gotten up on the stand on F&T Sunday to proclaim our belief in Joseph Smith as a prophet and Gordon Hinckley as a prophet today, rebellion against suggestions of any kind would not have been looked upon too favorably, especially the closer you get to Utah.

Reverence for the living prophet is still very much the norm in today's Mormon world, much like it was 150 years ago, isolated in the wilderness of Utah Territory. Anyone reading the Journal of Discourses can plainly see that it is full of the opinions of men, and not counted as scripture among the Mormon faithful, and for good reason. But, imagine living there during the moment the words were uttered. Imagine what it would mean to be building up a kingdom for God and to have a living prophet to guide you. Would there really be any such thing as 'rogue Mormons' who took those speeches just a bit too seriously? Or is it more likely that Brigham did not actually forsee an instance where his words could actually be taken as God's instruction on how to handle any intruders into the Utah territory? I'm in the camp of placing blame at Brigham's door step because his claims of being a living prophet cannot be demonstrated by the evidence available. I have not received any proof given by Mormons that he was an inspired man, destined to lead the church forward after Joseph's death, and that he had any skills other than as a great orator and had a magnificent stage presence. He commanded attention, and he got reverence and respect because he cultivated fear in those who placed him there. He can't be called a prophet if he can't see future events. He can't be called a prophet if he can't see the consequences of his words. And he certainly should not be revered as a prophet by the Mormon faithful if he can discredited so easily.

I'm mad as hell for the Mountain Meadows Massacre because Brigham Young never corrected his blood atonement doctrine after the event was carried out. He never spoke out to congregations that followed that this was not what he intended by his words, and that those who committed the crime would be accountable for it. He never assumed responsibility for the furor his speeches created, instead choosing to rest on the excuses of blaming the immigrants for being there in the first place, and for the Indians attacking them in conjunction with a few 'rogue Mormons'.

I'm still mad at the Mormon church because they have the same reverence for Gordon Hinckley as the old saints did for Brigham Young. Gordon Hinckley has yet to make ONE single prophecy, how can he be called a living prophet? What proof is there that he has this power at all?

But mostly I'm mad because one of the main questions still asked during an interview to receive a temple ticket is: Do you sustain Gordon Hinckley as prophet, seer, and revelator?

Why the hell should I, when he has never prophesied, seer'd, or revelated anything EVER?

Which one of the Mormon prophets ever DID get a prophecy right? More importantly, when was the last time a Mormon prophet made prophecies of any sort?

The reverence for living prophets is what makes it impossible to place Mormons within the realm of Christianity. It's also what makes Mormons "rogue". Listening to the opinions of a single man in regards to how you can best show your loyalty and worthiness to God is what makes a cult. It's not hard to draw the conclusion here.

4 comments:

Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for these thoughts. I think it obvious why the MMM isn't discussed among the Mormon faithful. However, you hit upon an issue and asked questions which I have asked myself many times, even as a TBM.

"Which one of the Mormon prophets ever DID get a prophecy right? More importantly, when was the last time a Mormon prophet made prophecies of any sort?"

The question is spot on.

Early in my mission experience, I debated a young woman on the errors Joseph Smith made in Prophecy. She would make accusations, and I would research and come up with a rebuttal. I had to jump through some illogical hoops to do so. The fact is that Joseph got some right, and some wrong. Her point was that one wrong invalidates one's authority as a prophet.

Later, when asked why kinds of prophecies have been made recently, I was stunned that I couldn't come up with a list. My fallback was food storage and emergency preparation, which was a fairly effective answer considering that I served after 9/11.

Truth is that the church seems to have decreased the rate of their prophecies, little by little, since the time of Joseph Smith. I guess there is just too much chance of being wrong, and way too much as stake if the church's "prophets, seers, and revelators" are clearly not.

Astarte Moonsilver said...

Thanks Joel, for your comments. I appreciate your insight and sharing your personal experiences as a missionary.

I accidentally deleted a comment posted by an 'Anonymous' soul from Ogden, UT, so I will quote it here along with my answer.

Have you carpped around enough? Do you feel better? You are either incredibly stupid or you were a pretty poor student. The Mountain Meadows Massacre has been taught in Seminary and Utah schools for years. Mormon historians have published books and articles about the massacre. Pull your head out of your Mormon-hating butt and look at what's out there.

I'm mad as hell about idiots like you that show how ignorant you are about Mormon and American history.

Grow up!


I can't believe that some faithful Mormons would actually accuse those of us who didn't know about the Mountain Meadows Massacre of being "poor students" and "completely ignorant of church history that has been taught for years". Oh yeah? Where has it been taught, exactly? Utah history books? And could that be because the event happened IN UTAH?

I grew up outside the Morridor, and I can assure anyone doubting that the Mountain Meadows Massacre was NOT in my copy of Seminary materials, or talked about EVER in any of my classes. How can I be at fault for failure to know history that has never been made available to the masses until this last issue of the Ensign? And now I'm going to be told it's my own damn fault and I'm incredibly stupid? You know what? I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!

I was incredibly stupid. I knew nothing about the massacre, and only recently have Mormon historians written any books on the subject, AND only after the bones were uncovered in 1990. Prior to that, there were NO available accounts to review or question. I was incredibly IGNORANT of the facts, just like I was ignorant of many things in church history. And now that I am free from the mind-set of limited reach, I know all about church history, Joseph's philandering ways and teachings in the Journal of Discourses, subjects that were not thoroughly covered in Seminary class in MY state.

I am no longer ignorant about Mormon and American History, and that is why I am no longer a member of the church. I know too much, and I have been cast out of it because of my 'intellectualism', one of the big three major sins according to Boyd Packer.

Just because somebody comes along and says that these topics have been hashed and dealt with time and time again, doesn't mean they were successful and making the case for Mormons. And if they really were dealt with, and virtually ALL Mormons knew about MMM all along, (except us stupid ones) why the need for the Ensign article, or Turley's forthcoming book refuting the claims of non-Mormon historians? Could it be that there is a need to rebuild faith and testimony? Could it be that more and more of us 'incredibly stupid' people are turning to the internet for answers that the church has failed to provide? And maybe a couple thousand more will find their way to topics like the Kirtland Bank Failure, the discovery of the Kinderhook Plates and the story of Zelph written upon them, or maybe find out that polygamy started with Joseph Smith's affair with Fanny Alger way before the days of Nauvoo. (My TBM mom still does not believe this last one). If the Mormon church is doing such an outstanding job of coming clean about it's history, then how is it that so many Mormon faithful have no idea about Blacks being denied the priesthood until 1978, or that marrying a Black person means bringing the "curse of Cain" upon your children?

Oh, I see. We are to blame for being so "incredibly stupid". The information is right there, all around us. All we had to do was pay attention and we would have known all of these things before reading about it on some Mormon-hating blog. I just love it when some TBM comes along and tells me that it's MY fault I didn't learn about it sooner, because the church certainly gave me every opportunity to learn every detail about its history.

Didn't Boyd Packer caution a whole host of Mormon historians against revealing the whole history without regards to maintaining faith? I believe he is quoted as saying, "some things that are true are not very useful".

Just another couplet?

I did grow up, Anonymous. That's why I'm out of the church trying to teach ignorant people like you how to pull their heads out of their butts and look at what's out there.

Anonymous said...

Well, I came across your post while doing a search on the church. You're entitled to your opinions on Hinkley and with the exception of repeating yourself when you're in full flight, you make a reasoned sort of argument; but it's reasoning that's stunted.

My question to you though is this-
If Gordon B. Hinkley came out with a specific prophecy about an upcoming tragedy and it happened as Hinley foretold, would you curse God for telling Hinkley and then letting it happen?

I think you would.

If Hinkley uses the Ensign to push a revelation in repeated articles, would you listen?

You're entitled to your belief and hey, most LDS wouldn't bother engaging you as I am but I want you to think about the nature of prophecy.

Often prophecy is not so much about tragedy as it is about riding a see-saw effect.

When oil skyrockets to unprecedented new highs over the next few years, that's not going to be a tragedy but rather a see-saw where those dependant on oil at $50 a barrel, see their lives disrupted. It hit $80 a few nights ago and is expected to climb higher.

One of the continents is dying: As the Australian continent continues to dry out, the world's wheat and rice prices are going to rise to dizzying new heights. That will cause pain to those dependant on affordable grain in the very near future. Australian media is talking about food price rises of around a minimum of %30 within the next two years- many food items are going to increase by as much as %300 as the grain crop fails for another year and the ground water below dries up.

As the U.S. ECONOMY SHAKES, due to inflated borrowings, many unstable investments will collapse in the near future. That is both good and bad but it's very bad for those that have mortgaged and borrowed excessively.

All it will take is for two of these events to quicken in pace and the global economy will enter a meltdown stage/recession. It's the culmination of factors that leads to recessions and even depressions- this is historical fact. We don't even need a Kobe earthquake nowadays to ruin economic stability.


Hinkley has been emphasising getting out of debt like never before for the last few months. I've never seen such an influx of media produced by the church on the absolute necessity to get out of debt NOW.

It has been said that 'fat kids win at see-saw' but I sense that many 'fat' children are about to be weened from the things they take for granted. This includes you.


May I humbly suggest, that you heed to the 'get out of debt prophecy' instead of demanding a time and date stamp and associated indication of how events will unfurl and impact upon your lifestyle over the next few years.

Astarte Moonsilver said...

Quote:
My question to you though is this-
If Gordon B. Hinkley came out with a specific prophecy about an upcoming tragedy and it happened as Hinley foretold, would you curse God for telling Hinkley and then letting it happen?


My Answer:

If GBH ever actually made a prophecy concerning a specific event, it would necessarily have to have a time stamp on it, or it isn't a prophecy. It's an opinion without a time stamp.

Let me put it to you quite simply...GBH steers clear of specifics because he has no powers of a prophet, seer or revelator. He simply draws conclusions based on scientific evidence and watching CNN, just like any one else has the ability to do. Yet, we are not called prophets, and why is this? GBH has been quoted saying, "I don't know" more times than any other prophet in the history of the church, and that is precisely my point: We don't have to fear him (or revere him).

As for your suggestion that I heed the 'get out of debt prophecy', I already solved that problem by ending my tithing payments to the church. On my side bar, I have been keeping track of how much money I have saved by not paying tithing, and I have not once had to go on state welfare, ask to borrow money for gas or request food assistance from any organization. I have all my debts current. I am much more financially secure than I ever was in the 20+ years of servitude in the church. I have posted about what qualifies as a prophecy before, and I have pointed out many failed prophecies of more than one LDS prophet. Now you are calling foul because I actually expect a "time and date stamp and associated indication of how events will unfurl". Duh, of course I do. That's what prophets do, silly. Not sit in fancy church office buildings planning great and spacious conference centers and billion dollar malls. Any corporate president can do that, and he is a corporate president. The problem is he uses funds derived from tithing to do it, with little repercussions for misusing it. Not what I would call a prophet at all.

Perhaps our disagreement lies in the definition of the word, "prophet". Let me give you the Webster's Dictionary version:

1 : one who utters divinely inspired revelations: as a often capitalized : the writer of one of the prophetic books of the Bible b capitalized : one regarded by a group of followers as the final authoritative revealer of God's will [Muhammad, the Prophet of Allah]
2 : one gifted with more than ordinary spiritual and moral insight; especially : an inspired poet
3 : one who foretells future events : PREDICTOR
4 : an effective or leading spokesman for a cause, doctrine, or group [This one is the one Mormons crutch on]
5 Christian Science a : a spiritual seer b : disappearance of material sense before the conscious facts of spiritual Truth


Obviously, we have a difference of opinion when it comes to naming a prophet as such. You believe GBH can be called a prophet because he is a leader of a group; and I would call him a leader, an advisor, the president or CEO of a company. It's nothing more than a title in that sense, and that being the case, where is the need for little children to be taught to "follow the prophet, he knows the way?"

You need to read my other posts regarding prophecy and the failures of the LDS prophets to come up with substantial evidence to back up the claim that they are indeed, "divinely inspired" and "gifted with more than ordinary spiritual and moral insight" for me to believe they are prophets. And GBH falls short on that qualification just like BY and Joseph did.

Quote:
When oil skyrockets to unprecedented new highs over the next few years, that's not going to be a tragedy but rather a see-saw where those dependent on oil at $50 a barrel, see their lives disrupted. It hit $80 a few nights ago and is expected to climb higher.

One of the continents is dying: As the Australian continent continues to dry out, the world's wheat and rice prices are going to rise to dizzying new heights. That will cause pain to those dependent on affordable grain in the very near future. Australian media is talking about food price rises of around a minimum of %30 within the next two years- many food items are going to increase by as much as %300 as the grain crop fails for another year and the ground water below dries up.

As the U.S. ECONOMY SHAKES, due to inflated borrowings, many unstable investments will collapse in the near future. That is both good and bad but it's very bad for those that have mortgaged and borrowed excessively.

All it will take is for two of these events to quicken in pace and the global economy will enter a meltdown stage/recession. It's the culmination of factors that leads to recessions and even depressions- this is historical fact. We don't even need a Kobe earthquake nowadays to ruin economic stability.


Pardon me, but anyone who keeps up with the world and national news can see the future in the same way. Are we ALL prophets now, for being able to discern this info for ourselves? Or are you actually giving credit to GBH for enlightening us on the condition of the world? And what is his answer? Getting out of debt, right? Then tell me this: How does a family of four get out of debt faster by donating 10% of their income right off the top, to the church? Wouldn't it make more sense to use that money for following the "prophetic wisdom" of GBH?

As for my 'gluttony', you wouldn't have any idea about what I may or may not take for granted, or how far in debt I may be in, or if I even drive a car at all!!! Don't tell me you believe GBH knew all along that the U.S. economy is going in the toilet, that oil prices will skyrocket to infinity, and that crops will fail and the ground water will dry up!!! He never prophesied about ANY of these things, this is all from scientists, economists, and environmentalists. In other words, not Prophecy, but Science. Good hard evidence versus "divine inspiration".

I'm not scared of your prophet or what he says. And if you asked 100 people in Michigan who GBH is, you might get 5 who could name him. That shows you how much 'world' impact your prophet has. If he has such an important message to convey, why isn't he doing it very well?